- EO Charging supplies a turnkey service for car fleets, together with all of the {hardware}, software program and repair parts of the electrification stack. President and Chief Industrial Officer John Walsh informed us that the software program and upkeep layers of the stack are the keys to charger reliability.
- Fleets usually overestimate the quantity of energy they’ll must hold their EVs charged. Detailed modeling within the early levels of a mission, together with good vitality administration, might help a fleet keep away from the prices and delays concerned with upgrading a utility connection.
- Completely different fleets have totally different infrastructure wants. EO charging presents month-to-month fee plans based mostly on the variety of chargers, kilowatt-hours delivered, or miles traveled, with a view to deal with totally different buyer wants.
Q&A with EO Charging’s John Walsh
How is offering charging infrastructure for EV fleets like working a web page or a mobile phone community? All of those worthy endeavors (amongst others) rely on a stack, which is a hip approach of describing a system of interrelated {hardware} and software program merchandise that operate collectively.
Some layers of the stack could also be easy, and others could also be advanced. Some could also be seen as commodities, and others might rely on extremely specialised proprietary know-how. Some could also be set-it-and-forget-it methods which can be anticipated to work easily, and others could also be—for need of a greater time period—a ache within the neck.
In an rising area corresponding to EV charging infrastructure, it could be laborious for potential clients to determine how the totally different layers of the stack match collectively, and which layers require particular consideration. So as to add to the confusion, the solid of characters is giant, and the relationships amongst them will be advanced—just like the listing of dramatis personae in a Victorian novel. Some firms concentrate on one layer of the stack, and others supply a turnkey bundle, offering all of the services themselves and/or subcontracting with different corporations.
What’s the very best course for a fleet operator to steer? Does it make sense to combine and match totally different firms for various layers of the stack, or is it higher to contract with a turnkey supplier, maybe for a hard and fast month-to-month value? For some solutions, Charged sat down with John Walsh, President and Chief Industrial Officer of EO Charging, who defined how the layers of the EV fleet charging infrastructure stack match collectively, and provided some suggestions for patrons.
Charged: What sort of clients does EO Charging serve?
John Walsh: We do all depot charging, so our goal clients are transit authorities, faculty districts and fleets, corresponding to Amazon, FedEx, UPS, DHL. Additionally, the truck OEMs which can be beginning to come on-line now—Daimler, Bollinger, Workhorse—we’re focusing on these as nicely.
The issue on this trade is that everybody’s all concerning the cupboard and the {hardware}. That’s the largest problem with charging as we speak—everybody thinks, “Man, if I may simply get that wall field on the wall or get that charger within the floor, I’ve acquired what I want.” And it’s solely the start.
Charged: You had been previously Chief Industrial Officer at Proterra, an organization that we’ve written about rather a lot. I for one thought it was an awesome firm, and I used to be shocked when issues turned pear-shaped. What occurred?
John Walsh: What occurred to Proterra via the lens of John Walsh could be very disappointing. I left the corporate over a yr in the past, a bit of bit earlier than the storm hit, as a result of I noticed the ship sinking. We went public, we did a SPAC, we had a number of capital that acquired burned via very quick, and…simply mismanagement, I’d say, greater than something.
However don’t surrender on Proterra. The corporate was offered in three items—battery methods, chargers and buses—and there are three totally different homeowners now. Proterra had the very best battery know-how on the planet, and it’s nonetheless the very best battery know-how. There are a number of firms that can use their battery methods and have a number of success. I believe the Volvo Group [which bought Proterra’s battery business] will prosper via the know-how that was given delivery by Proterra.
Sorting via the stack
Charged: For fleets, there are a number of items to the charging puzzle. You’ve got your individual proprietary software program, and also you supply a full turnkey bundle for fleets.
John Walsh: We do. It’s referred to as a stack, and it’s actually six easy factors.
The primary half is session, the place you sit down and perceive the utility, perceive the depot.
The second piece is your design and your set up—you dig up the bottom and you place the chargers in.
The third bullet is the {hardware}—we do enterprise with about six OEM {hardware} firms. And to us, it’s a buyer’s alternative. We’ll give them what we really feel like are some good options based mostly on the facility ranges that they want. If you speak to EO Charging, you’re not speaking to ABB, Heliox or Siemens—you’re speaking to all of them as a result of we’re hardware-agnostic.
The fourth piece is the software program. And this is part of the stack that’s actually vital that individuals overlook. The software program is your fourth bullet, then your fifth bullet is upkeep “Oh, wow. You imply it’s a must to preserve the chargers?” Nicely, you want to preserve your automobile, proper? So, completely.
After which the final piece, and doubtless an important piece we’ve got, is a technical operations heart [TOC]. When you have a mobile phone, there’s a technical operations heart that’s resetting your telephone all day lengthy, and also you don’t even understand it. That’s what we’re capable of do—we are able to see that charger within the floor.
We’ll do components of the stack a la carte. The one factor we is not going to decouple is the software program and the upkeep. Should you choose a software program supplier and a separate upkeep supplier, then it’s two totally different telephone calls. That’s what clients are pissed off with. One telephone name for that full stack—design it for me, put it within the floor, give me the {hardware}, preserve it for me for 10 years—that’s the answer they’re on the lookout for, and that’s what we do.
Considered one of our unique buyers was an organization referred to as Amazon, they usually demanded 99% uptime. And that’s what we provide clients. You may ask Amazon, “Inform me about EO, and inform me about your uptime,” they usually’d say it’s 99.7. They may let you know that, not us—they’re a really demanding buyer.
“We’ll do components of the stack a la carte. The one factor we is not going to decouple is the software program and the upkeep.”
Depot chargers are dependable, aren’t they?
Charged: Charger reliability is a scandal, and I strongly suspect that a number of the issues are as a result of there may be half a dozen firms and organizations concerned with a mission.
John Walsh: You’ve hit the nail on the pinnacle. We do accomplice with sure clients or sure firms. For engineering, we’d accomplice with somebody. I’ll accomplice on the high of the stack, however as soon as it’s within the floor, it’s all me. It’s my software program, it’s my upkeep, it’s my TOC, and that’s the important thing to reliability that everybody’s complaining about.
Charged: Now, I do know you don’t do public charging, you solely do fleet depot charging. I’m guessing the latter doesn’t have as many challenges with reliability. Am I proper?
John Walsh: No.It’s simply as dangerous. I’m sorry to report that reliability with depot chargers is about the identical as with public. I used to be as soon as at an APTA [American Public Transportation Association] assembly—all transit companies—and I requested them, “Who has 90% reliability at your depots? Who has 80% reliability?” It was after I acquired to 70% and 60% that individuals began elevating their arms. It’s not a quantity that we’re making up.
If we go to a buyer they usually say, “We’ve acquired three totally different manufacturers of chargers on this huge depot as a result of we purchased them at totally different instances, and we ended up shopping for ABB, Siemens and Heliox,” we are saying we don’t care. They could have to take a look at three screens. They’ve three totally different software program packages and three totally different upkeep methods. With us, it’s all on one display screen. I believe that’s actually what our secret sauce is, and that’s the largest promoting level of our firm—the {hardware} is agnostic to the software program, and we’re capable of see every little thing in a single spot from an operations heart.
“I’m sorry to report that reliability with depot chargers is about the identical as with public. I as soon as requested a bunch of transit companies about reliability at their depots, and it was solely after I acquired to 70% and 60% that individuals began elevating their arms.”
For these about to affect
Charged: How about some handy-dandy suggestions for fleet operators? What are a few of the issues that may go fallacious, and the way can they keep away from them?
John Walsh: The one you hear probably the most is “It’s essential pay money for your utility yesterday.” And to me, that’s a broad reply. What does that imply? Once I attain the utility, what do I ask them? There’s so many fleet operators, massive, massive firms, that simply don’t know what to do.
What’s the distinction between a UPS facility and an Amazon facility? They’re most likely 50 years aside. UPS, they’ve been round for an extended, very long time, so that they have buildings that they by no means thought they might electrify. Then you’ve got Amazon—most of their buildings are model new, and they’re making ready for electrification. So, the error I believe will get made is, for those who take UPS for instance, they’re going to say, “We acquired 100 vans. Now we have to cost all of them. We’ve acquired one megawatt of energy coming into the constructing. We’d like 5.” And they’re going to instantly contact that utility, as a result of that’s what everybody tells them to do, and inform them, “I want 4 megawatts extra energy.” And that’s if you hear all people busting out laughing behind the room.
Nicely, they don’t essentially want as a lot energy as they suppose. We do a number of modeling for patrons. “That is what number of automobiles we’ve got. That is the vitality storage on board, and that is how a lot energy we’ve got on the depot.” We mannequin for them the dimensions charger they want, however we additionally assist them handle the vitality as soon as it comes into the constructing. I ship it in two totally different instructions. I ship it to the power conveyor belts, and I ship it to the chargers, however I’m not going to cost these EVs all day lengthy. I’m going to cost them at particular instances of night time at a sure energy stage.
Don’t over-capitalize the mission. Do your homework and take into consideration how a lot energy you really want into that facility. You’ll be able to work with the utility on that, but in addition work with firms like EO that can assist you determine that piece out so that you don’t spend a bunch of cash—and I’m speaking thousands and thousands of {dollars}—to place energy right into a constructing that you simply’re by no means going to make use of. That’s most likely the largest mistake I’ve seen in doing 200 deployments on the depot facet.
If we hear a buyer say, “Nicely, we’re simply doing a pilot,” we are saying, “Okay, however the place do you go from there?” They are saying, “I’m going to do 10 buses, and I’m going to do 10 chargers, and let’s see the way it goes.” That’s actually not a good suggestion. What we’re doing a number of proper now with clients that did that 10 years in the past, we’re ripping every little thing out—rip and substitute. Now, the know-how’s modified, I’ll offer you that. However on the identical time, they actually didn’t do a correct job of setting themselves as much as scale.
There was a transit authority up in Canada that constructed a brand-new facility, 400 buses below one roof. They knew from the start they had been going to cost 400 buses, however they solely did 60 to start with. However the facility, the lanes had been arrange so they might simply add the chargers as they went alongside. Every little thing within the facility was able to go. Planning for scale is one thing that’s tremendous, tremendous vital.
“Fleets don’t essentially want as a lot energy as they suppose. Don’t over-capitalize the mission. Work with firms like EO that can assist you determine that out so that you don’t spend a bunch of cash to place energy right into a constructing that you simply’re by no means going to make use of.”
Charged: I believe (I’ve a suspicious thoughts about this stuff) that 10 years in the past, a few of these fleets thought, “We acquired a authorities grant, so we’ll do a pilot, and that’ll fulfill the greenies, after which we’ll return to enterprise as normal.”
John Walsh: That’s proper. I believe that’s precisely what they had been pondering. Is it political? It may be in some instances the place we’ve got to cope with a authorities mandate. What I like about Florida, there’s so many purchasers which can be going electrical that don’t need to. One of many first electrical fleets within the US was Star Metro, the transit authority in Tallahassee, and people buses function on Florida State’s campus. Now, these buses, 14 years in the past, they solely went 30 miles on a single cost. How did they handle that? They used en route charging. Nicely, as we speak, on an electrical bus, you possibly can go 250 miles. Now, their chargers are on the depot, like a daily fueling station. They refill at night time, they usually run all day lengthy.
Cost your fleet for one month-to-month price
Charged: You supply a whole turnkey service for a month-to-month fee. How does that work?
John Walsh: We’ll bundle our Stage 2 charger with the software program, the upkeep, the technical operations heart, and cost one month-to-month price—it’s $59. That bundle is admittedly enticing to a number of fleet clients.
We provide a month-to-month fee by charger, by kilowatt-hour, or by mile. A buyer can select their program, as a result of their wants fluctuate. Some clients have a number of idle time. Some clients are placing a number of miles on the market. Some are charging and discharging fairly a bit as nicely. I’ve DHL in New York Metropolis, they usually say, “We don’t want a number of batteries on our vans, as a result of, in your entire day, we’d go 20 miles,” as a result of they’re caught in site visitors in Manhattan. That’s totally different from any person in Kansas that may be working a good distance. So, we wish to give these choices to clients and allow them to select.
Charged: Are there some conditions the place a buyer assumes they’re going to want DC quick chargers, however they are able to get by with the Stage 2 and keep away from a few of the procurement bottlenecks?
John Walsh: Yeah, that’s precisely what occurs. Now we have our personal charger referred to as the Genius Fleet, which is a Stage 2 charger, 19.2 kilowatts. We really feel prefer it matches with a number of fleet clients as a result of they’re going to make use of a Rivian van or a Ford E-Transit that has roughly 100 kWh of storage on board. The dimensions of the charger is admittedly enticing—you don’t need to get right into a Stage 3, which will be very costly. And the neat factor concerning the Genius is we’ve got them in stock. There’s no ready on switchgear or charger {hardware}. If a buyer says, “I want 10 chargers,” we are able to ship them inside 24 hours. Now we have them warehoused across the nation.
We make our personal Stage 2 charger in Europe, however the one we’ve got right here within the US is made for us by IoTecha. After which on the DC charger facet, ZEROVA, Kempower, ABB, a number of of those producers, if you see our label on it, it’s a must to stroll across the again of the charger to see that it’s any person else’s. We do this simply from a branding standpoint, however once more, we’re agnostic to the {hardware}. So long as it’s OCPP 1.6-compliant and we get good service from them, we’re completely happy.
The same old questions on developments
Charged: Individuals are predicting a wave of consolidation within the EVSE {hardware} market. There’s a number of firms, and a few them lately went belly-up: Tritium, Freewire.
John Walsh: I believe it’s a pattern. There’s completely going to be consolidation. With fleet, faculty bus and transit, that {hardware} has to satisfy Purchase America requirements. That implies that that charger must be in-built the USA, and it has to have 70% US content material. That shrinks down the variety of firms. Lately, you most likely noticed that Siemens purchased out Heliox. We expect that’s a superb factor as a result of we predict Heliox has a very good product and actually good service.
Are there too many charger firms? I don’t know that there’s ever an excessive amount of of something. I’d say we want the correct variety of charger producers that construct good merchandise and might service their merchandise. And that’s the place EO is available in on the service and upkeep facet. However I believe consolidation is totally going to occur.
Charged: How far alongside are we with the Megawatt Charging System?
John Walsh: Now we have a bunch of them within the floor. We provide a 1.44-megawatt charging system, and I find it irresistible as a result of it’s possibly half the dimensions of a van, and it matches within the nook of the depot. I can cost 40 automobiles on one charger, and I can put in a 60 kW, a 150 kW output. I can combine and match it for a buyer, which is very nice. It’s a cost-saver, it’s simpler to keep up, and it permits a buyer to essentially scale as a result of they put that within the nook of a depot, after which they’ll add one other one and one other one, they usually can actually get their entire fleet electrified with out chargers taking on area.
Charged: So, MCS permits you not solely to cost one car at a super-high price, nevertheless it lets you break up that up. Is that one thing you possibly can’t do with CCS?
John Walsh: You’ll be able to, however you’re restricted—let’s say you are taking a 150 kW charger, you possibly can put two dispensers on it, however that’s all you are able to do. On this one MCS charger, I can put 40 dispensers, and I can cost concurrently or sequentially. It actually offers you versatility.
Charged: What about V2G? Is it nonetheless a pilot-stage know-how, or are you aware of some business purposes?
John Walsh: We’re partnering with BorgWarner on V2G. I do know them very well as a result of they acquired Rhombus, which was one among our companions at Proterra. They do have the know-how, nevertheless it’s nonetheless very a lot in a pilot stage. The college bus market actually desires it, they usually need it at scale. I believe V2G will get pushed by the shopper. Dwelling right here in Florida, if we’ve got a storm and the electrical energy goes down, nicely, I’ve acquired an influence station proper right here—we’ve acquired 1,000 faculty buses sitting there filled with vitality. I simply need to have the potential to tug it off that bus and into one other car or a facility. However I nonetheless suppose it’s in pilot—I can’t offer you an instance of a business utility the place I’m seeing it at scale but.
